You presented your 2022 AW collection The ERA via video. Did you find not being able to do a show frustrating, or did you perhaps find there to be some potential in this format?Fashion shows and videos are completely different. There are some people out there who do their fashion shows on video, but I believe this to be completely meaningless. Video is not live, and a show can never become a video, so a video can’t become a show. But if you are going to present your collection on video, I simply think it’s better to write up a scenario and make sure you film in properly. Shows and videos are each have their good points, so being able to do both would be ideal.
So you’ve been able to find an interest in video production as well?Yes. I think I may have a penchant for the editing process of video production. What I like about editing is how you film something, create this state were zero has been turned to one, then leave it as it is for a moment before turning this one into some other value. But video production also requires time before my focus settles into place and I can see clearly. I’m on my fourth video now since the start of the pandemic, but for some reason I feel like I’ve gotten worse at it this time around. I’ve crashed into another wall and find myself in a situation where I can’t get everything to catch up to my vision.
Setting aside shows and videos, do you have any new ideas when it comes to presentation?I do have ideas or things I want to try, but unfortunately I don’t think I’ll ever be able to present the things I have in mind during my lifetime.
It’s been 26 years your debut with NUMBER (N)INE. How do you think you’ve grown as a fashion designer in that time?I think my experience in fashion design is really quite low. There’s no telling when my studies will end. Well, all I can do really is keep learning for the rest of my life. I haven’t actually made anything, created anything, to begin with anyway.
What do you mean by “anything” here?The human form is something that won’t change, so nothing new can really be made. They say kids here today have longer arms and legs, that they’re taller and have slimmer heads and faces, but that’s all you can say has really changed in the past 30 years. Everything else is the same, so whatever I would try to imagine wouldn’t change anything.
You mean to say that there’s a limit to how far apparel can evolve so long as the human form remains the same?If any limits were put in place it would probably become a factor in me quitting again. I try not to impose limits for this reason, but there are already restrictive rules that exist. Like if, say, our heads could rotate 360 degrees or our joints could bend backwards, then maybe we could make some truly novel apparel. But none of that is ever going to happen, so my struggle is to figure out what kind of performances I can do, how far I can push the limits, within this certain amount of hard rules.
What is your concept of fashion?I’ve been saying this all along, but it’s the closest thing to art, yet also a thing that has yet to become art. Movies and music have been recognized as art, but fashion alone has been denied this distinction. I believe this is because it lacks a definitive “something”, and it’s this “something” that I’m searching for. I’m sure there are more than few designers out there who feel the same way as I do.
But you don’t feel that any designer out there has reached the level of art?No, I don’t. But if someone did, I think it would certainly change the lay of the land.
So then what is your concept of art?I haven’t reached that level, so I suppose it’s a completely unknown realm. If I can enter this secret social club that is art, that will be the first time I become aware of what world it is, but the fact that I don’t know means that I still have yet to find my way there.
Do you think fashion can reach the level of art?I believe it can, and that’s why I continue to do it.
People’s lifestyles and ways of thinking have changed greatly these past few years. As a fashion designer, what is your view of the times we live in now?We’re in a period of stagnation, or put in worse terms, an ice age. If someone doesn’t come along to break us free, nothing is ever going to change and we’ll be in real trouble. But, I’m leaving that up to others, I guess. At the very least, there’s no need for me to be the person who does the breaking, and in fact it’s certain that I’m not the one.
So you’re saying that this stagnation applies not just to fashion but to society as a whole?Doesn’t it apply to everything? Nothing is being born, after all. Even if someone were to try and birth something new, they would find it quite difficult with the way things are now. Fashion in particular is easily influenced by trends and people’s opinions, making this all the more so since it doesn’t have firm core running through it. This is also one of the reasons why fashion can’t become art.
You mentioned leaving thing up to others earlier. What would you like in the fashion industry or the milieu surrounding fashion today?So there are several “massive ships” the rule the waters of the world, and if a complete and total outside element were to infiltrate a special one of these ships, that element could use the environment and authority of the ship to set the stage for free, unrestrained creativity and doing so perhaps bring about some form of change. People working independently stand no chance going up against these massive ships as things stand now, so there is no freedom. By all rights this is a battle that is inevitably meant to arise, and I think it is only after this battle has taken place that we can truly make some kind of declaration that “fashion is free”.
How do you think people are meant to enjoy fashion?Everyone has their own thoughts on the matter, and one line of thinking is that clothes aren’t simply for wearing. “There is enjoyment in fashion that cannot be worn”—I have a feeling that this may hold the key to fashion becoming art. On the other hand, though, there’s also a part of me that questions the meaning of making clothes you can’t wear. Falling on both sides of the fence there is something I really agonize over. What is apparel, honestly? One thing that is certain, though, is that apparel doesn’t have much claim on the world. So yeah, if I were asked what fashion is, what apparel is, maybe they’re actually nothing at all.
How do you personally enjoy fashion and apparel now?I wonder, since it’s not like I really go on any special outings. That said, I do find myself doing kind of “summer vacation research projects” out of curiosity about how a particular type of clothes are made.
Are there any common elements that you find appealing in apparel or collections by other designers?I don’t often go out of my way to check out collections by other people, but I do think it’s cool when I come across a collection by someone who has a certain amount of conviction in the certain idea that they continue to evolve upon. Like something that looks exactly the same as last time but is completely different, where the chord progression they’re using is identical but the melody is totally new, and so on. It’s a skill I’d like to master myself if I weren’t the type of guy who likes to change all the instruments and everything, which I guess is why I have so much admiration for that kind of thing.
What’s your vision for the future, including your personal aspirations?Up until just a few weeks ago I was really yearning to go back to Paris, but now I’m fine wherever as long as I can do what I want to do there. That’s all I’ve got on my mind.
Do your shows in Paris carry special meaning for you?Yeah. It’s a battleground over there, not a celebration or anything else. You don’t want to lose, so you don’t want to go over there with something half-assed. That’s the type of place Paris is.
Do you feel a sense of achievement after completing a collection?I’ve never once tasted anything I would call a sense of achievement. When things wrap up I’m simply tired. But if I let my brain rest I would never move on to the next thing, so all I do is rest my body a bit.
With all that ceaseless thinking, are there ever moments where you find yourself empty?It’s better to empty myself, so I actually work hard to do that. Unfortunately, though, I may be too inept to become truly empty.
Translation to English: Luke Baker